I turned in grades for my spring term last night, and for no particular reason having to do with this group of students (both of my classes had highs and lows, but I think things ultimately “worked out”), I was reminded again of the balance all teachers face between idealism and pragmatism. Or, I guess, the world as we want it and the world as it is. Such a balance exists everywhere I suppose, and I certainly have been feeling it as of late in my role of sitedad.
Here’s what I mean:
In my version of the ideal academic/learning world, we wouldn’t have such crude things as “grades,” or even “degrees” or “courses” or “assignments.” We’d simply get together, teachers and students (and often in shifting roles), and we would find things we agree to learn about. Our knowledge would come about in a purely organic and epistemic manner, with no absolutes and an awareness that everyone has something to share and learn. My students wouldn’t do things (in my subject area, that amounts to a lot of reading and writing, often with various computer technologies) because they had to; they would do things purely because they wanted to.
I’m exaggerating a bit, obviously, but you get the idea.
Pragmatically, this is not why students are here. Of course they want to learn in some idealistic sense of course, but they also want/need structure (courses, assignments, requirements) to do so. They want/need grades, and they are here ultimately to get a degree that has some sort of clout in the world beyond. Truth be told, I’m here for similarly pragmatic reasons. Beyond my platitudes about the goals of pure learning, I teach because I get paid for it.
What does this have to do with EMUtalk.org? Well, here again I think we’re seeing a conflict between an ideal world and the real world. Ideally, I think that community online forums ought to function, well, communally. Ideally, there wouldn’t be anyone “in charge” per se, and all the members of the collective would look out for each other. We’d respect differences, we’d think before writing/speaking, we would encourage new and different voices, we’d know when to step back when we felt ourselves taking up too much space, and we’d have enough empathy with our fellow community members to do onto them as we would want them to do onto us.
The problem is that this turns out to not be realistic. And this is where, for me, this ties back to my teaching: every semester, when I’m going through the process of figuring out grades, I have a slight twinge fueled by my idealism and I think I shouldn’t have to go through this process of evaluating students at all, that this just reaffirms the education as commodity mindset. But then my pragmatic brain kicks in and reminds me that one of the reasons why I get a paycheck is to evaluate and give credit, and for me to not do that would be to shirk a very real world responsibility.
This got me thinking: perhaps I’ve been too idealistic about EMUtalk.org for too long. I really don’t want to assert my editorial authority over this space anymore than I want to tell students what to do or what grade they earned. But at the end of the day, I am coming to realize that I don’t really have much of a choice. If I want to preserve any chance of EMUtalk.org occupying a community-oriented and positive and idealistic space for talking about EMU, then I am going to have to make some pragmatic and overly authoritative decisions once in a while.
For example, I’ve gotten to the point where I delete comments from Jeff MacMillian when I see them pop up. I don’t like doing this. Ideally, would much prefer to work with Jeff in getting him to moderate his tone a bit and to not continue the practice of posting a bunch of comments all in a row or getting wildly off-topic. Pragmatically, that hasn’t worked so off he goes.
So, for the foreseeable future at least, this is the new editorial policy: I don’t want to automatically make it so that all comments are moderated and I will aim for inclusiveness of different comments and opinions, but I am going to start more proactively exercising my own judgment about deleting comments, advising posters, etc. This is certainly not an ideal solution (pun intended, I think); if you’re not crazy about it, suggest a better idea or get a blog of your own. And if you do get a blog of your own (and this includes you, Jeff), let me know and I’ll link to it.
In other EMUTalk.org news:
- You might notice some wonky performance of the site in the next couple of weeks as I upgrade the software and experiment with different layouts. It will probably impact the way that the site works for both posters and contributors, so don’t be surprised if you pop back here and it looks different. BTW, for the computer geeky amongst you: if you have expertise about WordPress 2.2 you want to share and/or you have ideas for a great theme for the revised EMUtalk.org, let me know.
- The EMUTalk.org fund drive is going along quite well! Via the amazon.com Honor System, we’ve raised $60; I’ve been handed $3 or $4 in person; and there have even been some purchases of fine EMUtalk.org merchandise. Which is cool– all I’m looking to do here is break even, and I’m about there.
Okay… back to the day-job….
I think your parallels with teaching are right on, Steve. I don’t like the idea of setting classroom policies and procedures but after this semester, I realize I’m going to have to. Students are becoming ever less able to self monitor as far as relevance and purpose of lecture/discussion/questions–a disturbing trend–but there it is nevertheless. I have always felt that too many policies, especially ones like: when I’m talking, you’re NOT, could make a classroom repressive and inhibit students feeling comfortable to express themselves. Well, lately, students feel free indeed to express themselves about many things–most of them having nothing to do with the task at hand (you know, the classic “will this be on the test?”…”when do we get a study guide?”). Often gives the goal oriented person the feeling that they are running in place or trying to drag a recalcitrant refrigerator back on track. So, classroom policies and procedures it is.
Could we have that famous Picasso of the guy tilting at windmills as our new logo? In that ideal world, I would like to see some satirical cartoons here (if we have anyone with such talent). There have been so many posts/threads/etc. on EMUtalk that have brought cartoonish images to mind, that I think someone should cash in on the ample inspiration provided on these pages. I don’t mean this disparagingly. More like: job johnnies outside Pray Harrold, standing in line with the dean…..or any other suit….hmmmmmm.
We might also be getting to the point where we could have the “Best of” and the “Worst of” 07/08 EMU Talk…although with Jeff gone we might have to eliminate the ‘worst of’ category…..
I also think we should start outing the voyeurs!
It may have been more than 20 years ago, but I remember well some of my undergraduate experiences in the Honors College at the University of Michigan. I disagree with the implication that there is a decline in self-evaluation and self-discipline among undergraduate students. What I (and other students of that place and time) didn’t do and did do quite shocks me now.
And the self-interest and grade chasing of EMU students is *nothing* compared to that of UM pre-med students, then or now. It’s annoying, I agree, but it’s normal.
I think much of the difference (between now and then) I’m seeing now is more due to (1) an increase in the student need/desire to work, (2) the difference in student population in terms of academic demographics, and (3) a greater sense of “I’m entitled to this” or “I should be treated in this manner.”
What sitedad is experiencing now in terms of how much to moderate is nothing new — the problem arose in the earliest days with newsgroups — our little spats on emutalk don’t compare to those flamewars, thank goodness. If you want to or feel you need to moderate, sitedad, with a light hand and clear standards as you propose, then I am ok with that — I think your plan will work; but I’m not convinced it’s necessary. Personally, I think JM’s commenting permissions should be re-instated — it’s pretty easy to bleep over lengthy comments/posts as, I’m sure, many of you have already done with my own little contributions, not to mention this one.
And I agree with DNLF that I’d like more humor around here. I’ve been increasing my exposure to Bob and Tom (the place to go for adolescent male humor), but that because we’re all so *grim*.
I agree with you on all counts, Susan. I didn’t mean to suggest that my students are somehow less idealistic and in need of more guidelines for work now than they were when I started teaching (going on) 19 years ago. I only mean to suggest that the highly idealized version of teaching of casting aside all rules and guidelines doesn’t work. I actually talk about this at some length in an article I wrote called “When Blogging Goes Bad.”
I’m all for more humor around these parts too– what ever happened to the weekend art from aging hippie? When I fix the current wordpress template, perhaps some weekend youtube links of one sort or another?
Let me rephrase. Sitedad’s dilemma: to moderate or not to moderate resonates with me. I appreciate the parallel with the classroom experience. I agree that the “entitlement” business plays a role here and quite possibly demographics. I do not buy the argument (and have never bought these types of arguments) that goes “they aren’t any worse than….”. The question is: are they as good as they could be and if not, how can we help them be the best they can be? The indications from the students themselves are that the non-self-monitoring students are distracting from the learning experience and something needs to be done about it. There are various tactics of course, but in true EMU tradition, I will start with ‘paper work’ and spell out my expectations of appropriate class room behavior in writing. I have not felt the need to do this before and I have been teaching here for 10 years. This indicates to me that either I wasn’t paying attention (always possible) or that things have changed.
In addition to humor, keeping my own nose to the ‘academic mission’ grindstone down here at the bottom helps me personally counteract the neglect of same at the top.
I think I’m too old for youtube; I was hoping we could inspire a young Berkeley Breathed (although you youngsters might have to google him).
Having been a teacher, I understand some of the concerns noted above. However, I should point out that “it was ever so.”
Here is Aristotle speaking about students:
“Accordingly we may ask the student also to accept the various views we put forward in the same spirit; for it is the mark of an educated mind to expect that amount of exactness in each kind which the nature of the particular subject admits. It is equally unreasonable to accept merely probable conclusions from a mathematician and to demand strict demonstration from an orator.
[5] Again, each man judges correctly those matters with which he is acquainted; it is of these that he is a competent critic.To criticize a particular subject, therefore, a man must have been trained in that subject: to be a good critic generally, he must have had an all-round education. Hence the young are not fit to be students of Political Science.1 For they have no experience of life and conduct, and it is these that supply the premises and subject matter of this branch of philosophy. [6] And moreover they are led by their feelings; so that they will study the subject to no purpose or advantage, since the end of this science is not knowledge but action. [7] And it makes no difference whether they are young in years or immature in character: the defect is not a question of time, it is because their life and its various aims are guided by feeling; for to such persons their knowledge is of no use, any more than it is to persons of defective self-restraint.2 But Moral Science may be of great value to those who guide their desires and actions by principle.”