I was at a function last night (a couple, actually– it was the Saturday before Halloween, after all), and a friend asked “Hey, has there been anything on EMUTalk about the whole thing where if you wear an old EMU Huron shirt you get a discount on getting into football games?” What are you talking about, I asked. Well, this:
From the EMU Communications website/newsletter Exemplar, comes this tiny little and benignly titled article, “Committee explores welcoming ideas.” Apparently, we now have something on campus called “The Huron Welcoming Committee.” According to one of the co-chairs, marketing director Ted Coutlish, “The Huron Welcoming Committee was created to help EMU Hurons feel more welcome and part of the Eastern Michigan University family. Our goals are to listen and learn what we can to provide a more welcoming and caring environment for anyone who has ever worn our colors. We are working closely with the Huron leadership on initiatives that will begin to bridge the divide and move us forward together.”
How are they “working together?” Why, they are giving the “once a Huron, always a Huron” a discount and an incentive for wearing their old EMU gear:
Efforts to acknowledge the Huron legacy have been most prominent within athletics. The department is making special efforts to welcome back Huron football teams from 1957 and 1987 this fall at home football games. In a further sign, anyone wearing a Huron T-shirt or sweatshirt gets into a football game at Rynearson stadium for $5 this fall, a $8 savings off the regular ticket price.
You know, I have mixed feelings about the whole Huron thing, but that decision is done and this incentive to relive the past is a really really bad idea for a bunch of different reasons. First off, isn’t one of the main problems with the Huron name/mascot the actual logo that EMU used to have on its old gear, as seen here on someone’s “once a Huron, always a Huron” kind of web site? Do we really want to encourage people to wear a big Indian (and I use that term instead of “Native American” to suggest the racism here) head on their chests into a home football game, especially since the university community decided that this logo was problematic and offensive sixteen years ago?!
Second, isn’t this just a move that keeps this very stale discussion alive and that even encourages the possibility that EMU is going to go back to the Huron mascot/logo/team name? I mean, EMU is literally giving this crowd of alumni/fans money, more than a 50% discount, to show up to football games with Huron stuff! All that does is send the message to groups like the Huron Restoration Alumni Chapter that this isn’t done and over with, and that if they keep active, they’ll get the Hurons back.
And third, if these people can get a discount by wearing a logo that goes back to the (now distant) past, why can’t I get a discount for a logo that looks to the future, a big “EMU fightin’ Emus” t-shirt?
People have said a lot of good things about Ted Coutlish and I think he has brought a lot of fresh marketing ideas to EMU. I have no problem with the idea of EMU folks want to talk to/reach out to groups like the Huron Restoration Alumni Chapter and talking with them, but I think that talk should be about why EMU changed its mascot name in the first place, what we can do to go on in the future, etc. But this is a boneheaded and embarrassing mistake, and EMU ought to stop this discount to football games right now.
I disagree.
EMU alumni pre ’90s abandoned EMU in droves after the change of mascot was forced on the EMU community. Whether or not to stop using the Hurons was a good idea is not at all the point. The point is that alumni, many of whom still live in the area and who should be apart of the campus community (or at least donating to EMU) were ticked — feeling abandoned, they abandoned the university.
The alumni I know, and there are many, have no expectation or even wistful fantasy of restoring their old mascot. In fact, I would venture to say that most think that restoring the mascot would be a bad idea for EMU.
However, welcoming Hurons back to EMU is a very good idea, and shows the right spirit.
$8 off seems excessive, though. I’d probably give a chit for $5 off EMU gear.
And the Fightin’ Emus will never happen. On the other hand, the Normalites — that has possibilities! Or maybe not.
Here’s the thing: the whole Huron thing pre-dates me by at least six years, but if people really do feel abandoned by the shift away from the Huron mascot, then that is good evidence that EMU screwed this up royally so long ago. But I don’t think two wrongs make a right.
Again, I’m all for taking with these “Huron forever” folks, and I am all for trying to work something (anything?) out that is some sort of compromise. Talk is good. Building bridges that were burned before is good. But this give-away basically says “We weren’t really that serious about the mascot change when it happened before, so go ahead and wear your old shirts with the big Indian head on it.”
Look at it like this: if I show up with an official Swoop the Eagle sweatshirt on, the CURRENT and official mascot, I pay full price. If I show up with some other mascot– A Normalite or an Emu or some other of my own picking– I pay full full price. But if I show up with a mascot that the institution made a deliberate decision to leave behind nearly two decades ago because many deemed it inappropriate, I get a discount. That’s messed up.
BTW, while we’re talking about ticket prices to the football games: I do not understand why EMU charges for these games at all. We’ve seen controversies over the last couple years where the athletic department came up with phony attendance numbers, and where the foundation ponied up a couple hundred thousand to buy tickets that no one used, so it’s not as if the price of admission is making that much of a dent in covering the costs. It’s not like these games are in huge demand or something. So why not just have the games be free? There’s no way it could hurt attendance figures, and logic would suggest a lot of people would check out a free game and just might be turned into fans.
Maybe free basketball games, too?
Hey – anybody know what the attendance was at yesterday’s homecoming game? Real numbers?
And hurrah, hurrah, hurrah for the EAGLES and their homecoming win!
I doubt this. If the athletic department discounted an $11.00 ticket that much it would not count toward attendance. NCAA only allows tickets to be discounted 50%. I have gladly paid for my football tickets for over 25 years. Bought 5 for at least 20 years.
Alum, what’s to doubt? EMU is letting the “Huron Nation” into the football games for $5, which is more than a 50% discount. That’s a fact, and it’s one that is the official word from EMU’s communications department.
As for the “NCAA only allows tickets to be discounted 50%” thing: first off, EMU is breaking this rule, if it were true. Second, when it comes to NCAA “rules,” someone is going to have to start quoting chapter and verse on this because as far as I can tell, no one actually knows what the NCAA rules are. I have a very difficult time believing that the NCAA has rules like how much ticket prices have to be, how many tickets you can give away, etc., etc.
The NCAA rules are found at http://www.ncaa.org/library/membership/division_i_manual/2007-08/2007-08_d1_manual.pdf (a 453 page book). As to discounting football tickets, the following appear to be the pertinent rules:
20.9.7.3 Football-Attendance Requirements. [FBS] Once every two years on a rolling basis, the institution shall average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football games… [snip]
20.9.7.3.1.2 Paid Attendance. For purposes of computing paid attendance figures, tickets must be sold for at least one-third of the highest regular established ticket price as established prior to the season, regardless of whether they are used for admission. Tickets sold at less than one-third of the highest regular established price may be counted as paid attendance only if they are used for admission…
The writer’s “Suggested racism” is uncalled for. Dropping the Huron was a bad, thoughtless, decision 15 years ago, and it still is now. It was actually racist and offensive to drop the Huron name in the first place because it suggested to Native Americans their tribes had reasons to be ashamed.
There were no Native American’s offended by EMU using the Huron name. In fact, two Huron chiefs came to campus to beg for the Huron name to stay but the EMU president at the time ignored their request for an audience. During hearings about the subject, the EMU leadership would not allow speakers to come forth who wanted the name to stay. It was over-zealous, “do-gooders” who took being “politically correct” too far who were the problem. These people wanted Native Americans to be offended so badly, that they made up stories suggesting they were offended. They created the problem; they were not “fixing” a problem.
Are the Irish offended? Where are the do-gooders who feel that Irish should be offended because Notre Dame has a Leprechaun representing them? The Huron was a name representing pride and kept the memory alive of Native Americans who once inhabited the Michigan region. If anything, Native Americans representatives requested to cease the use of “Tomahawk Chops” and other misrepresentations of their people, but certainly, did not ask for the name to be dropped. Not to mention, EMU is a unique and proud university, the Huron represented that well. The Eagle, well, it starts like an “E” so, I guess that makes it relevent, and 1000s of other colleges, universities and high schools use the same name, so that makes is “safe” (sarcasm intended).
EMU, unlike Central Michigan, University of Florida, North Dakota, etc. showed the world they had no backbone and without alumni or community support, dropped the Huron and replaced it with the ubiquitous Eagle. And since, EMU has changed the Eagle logo 5 times. The school has been without identity since. There are no “Eagle” traditions. And this is a major reason attendance at sporting events has dropped to depths not seen since the early 1980′s. EMU community can be reminded every time they park at Rynearson when the look west and see the “Chippewa Racquet Club” logo large and proud what a stupid decision long gone EMU leadership made.
So, Ted Coutlish is correct to encourage and welcome loyal Huron alumni back. He is extending an olive branch and making efforts to encourage Huron alumni to be a part of EMU again. Be looking out for more Huron efforts in the near future. It is never too late to fix the mistakes made of the past.
Not to split hairs, but I wonder if there is a difference between “actual” and “paid” attendance in 20.9.7.3, or if either of these rules actually require the institution to charge attendance to anyone. In other words, if the “highest price” for a ticket was zero, would that be okay?
As for what Mike is saying here: I guess I would just point him back to my original post. To summarize: I’m all for talking and reaching out to past alumni, but I’m not for caving in to their demands; right or wrong, the change to Eagles is ancient history; I think the logo is racist; I resent that they get a heavy discount when I don’t get squat for wearing an official sweatshirt.
But beyond that, I suspect attendance is down at EMU sporting events for a bunch of other reasons besides the logo and the mascot.
You know what, Steve, I get your point now: “I resent that they get a heavy discount when I don’t get squat for wearing an official sweatshirt.” Put that way, I agree completely. Whether viewed as reparations or as favoritism, it doesn’t work, morally.
But, as an act of welcoming to alienated alumni, I still like the general idea. Though, personally, I would prefer to see the university free up their lock on the Huron logo, and let alumni or whoever purchase Huron-gear.
The problem will go away in time … as long as we don’t make things worse. But I don’t see the point in maintaining a posture of exclusion. Let the Hurons have their gear and their fond memories of EMU. Let them open their checkbooks for current and future EMU academic programs.
For the record, lots of Native Americans were offended by EMU’s old Huron logo and nickname. I have met many Indians who held such objections, and they often mention EMU favorably for dropping what is, in my view, as a historian who has studied the topic, a clearly racist nickname. Interested people should read the collection of scholarly articles in the book TEAM SPIRITS: THE NATIVE AMERICAN MASCOTS CONTROVESY, edited by C. Richard King and Charles F Springwood (U of Nebraska Press, 2001).
Aside from Indians, no other group of human beings are commonly turned into mascots by American sports teams. They are not mascots, they are human. Unlike eagles or mytical creatures from Ireland.
The University does not have a lock on the Huron Logo, Huron Restoration does. This was decided in a court order.
Well, let’s be clear here: I’m not against reparations for real injustices to groups like (for example) actual Native Americans who were systematically screwed over by the US government for generations. I am against reparations to groups who perceive an injustice because of a mascot/logo change and who want to roll back the clock and be Hurons again. The first group has a real and valid claim, and the second group does not (IMO).
But this decision, right or wrong, was made a LOOONNNNGGG time ago. I do not know the history here, and it would be interesting to actually read a history that attempted to be a little more neutral and/or that attempted to explain the argument for the change from the point of view of folks who won the day with the change to Eagles. All I have heard are the sorts of claims being made by Mike: this was railroaded in, no one in the Huron tribe was offended, it was all done in the name of PC language, etc., etc., and I have to say that my general liberal spidey-sense makes me think these claims just might not be the whole story.
But I digress. The point is this is ancient history. We’re not going back to the Hurons. Let’s move on.
There are a TON of ways that EMU could reach out to these folks, including a real educational campaign as to why the logo and name change was done in the first place, what we can do to move forward to recognize some of the past while recognizing new traditions, etc., etc. I assume that the folks involved decided to go this route because it was really easy.
We’re never going to resolve the question of Hurons here– a good logo or evil. So, I promise, this is my last comment on this post.
Cornhuskers, Dutchmen, Trojans, Spartans, Volunteers, Minutemen, … Certainly, groups of human beings *are* commonly turned into mascots by sports teams. The key desirable attributes are (possibly) romanticized perceptions of physical prowess, valor, determination, etc. Characteristics that are worthy of emulation.
So was the Huron mascot chosen, used and clung to because it signalled a standard worthy of emulation or because it was racist? I say the former.
In any case, it’s a done deal. Hurons are no longer the official mascot. It was and IS STILL wrenching to change to a new mascot — and no matter how you feel about the zip (or lack of) of an Eagle mascot, it would be wrenching to change again. Alumni who are Hurons are not and were not racist. Alumni and students who are Eagles are not morally superior to Hurons.
” (and I use that term instead of “Native American” to suggest the racism here)”
I love it. Anyone in your eyes that wears that T-Shirt or supports EMU’s HURON namesake and mascot is a Racist Bigot.
That’s exactly what I am talking about. No one that supports the EMU HURON logo, namesake, spirit, and mascot is a racist bigot and they certainly don’t create these fallacies and start labeling EMU EAGLE T-Shirt wearers as Racist Bigots.
I mean why not? Let’s start labeling EMU Students who wear EMU Eagles as Bird Species bigots. I am sure that will generate a lot of togetherness and community.
Let’s all get together and point fingers and blame each-other and plant artificial reasons for why people want to do what people want to do.
Let’s just get together and see how fun it is to badmouthe eachother and verbally assault eachother and antagonize eachother over…what? A T-Shirt!
“In any case, it’s a done deal. Hurons are no longer the official mascot. ”
On contrary, EMU HURONS (is) the official mascot.
It is EMU EAGLE that isn’t and never was official. Not 1 single EMU Student or Alumni ever asked for that namesake.
Maybe in the hearts and minds of paper pushing EMU Administrators the EAGLE is official.
But in the hearts and minds of EMU Students and Alumni…. .You can forget pretending that everyone is happy and thrilled about EMU EAGLES.
We (myself and many others) are proud EMU HURONs.
EMU can parade around with an official EAGLE mascot as their mascot.
If EMU Wants to earn more money to fund building renovations….
One novel thing it could and should do is to allow EMU Students and alumni to purchase EMU HURON gear at the EMU Bookstore.
Do you realize how many Sales the EMU Bookstore would have if it brought in T-Shirts, Mugs, etc?
The Sales would go through the roof Day 1.
Students are silently in their minds begging to have this stuff available to them.
I don’t understand why Eastern couldn’t just change the name to Herons (you know, the bird).
(Very nice comment Susan.)
Many of you feel the Huron issue is history and presume that Hurons should just get over it.
As stated previous, 15 years does not fix what was a poor, non-thought out, inclusive decision by a handful of individuals. It was wrong to exclude the EMU community then, and it is wrong now. (And yes, there was an immediate drop in attendance at EMU home games following the dropping of the Huron.)
And to make sure everyone has the record straight, there were no members of the Huron tribe expressing offense or the logo dismissed. What WAS requested by some leaders of Native American communities was that any degrading cheers or inaccurate depictions of the Native Americans be dropped. Had the long gone university officials who single-handedly dropped the Huron and replaced it with the ubiquitous eagle opened communications with Native Americans and EMU community, they could have come to a happy middle-ground. This is what intelligent, critical thinking leadership does and this was obviously in shortage when the decision to drop the Huron occurred.
Leaders with ability to apply critical thinking compile factual research and opinions, and then base decisions on forecasting outcomes. They do not make “blink” decisions. EMU has had a shortage of presidents, and Regents with critical thinking abilities (ex. Dropping the Huron, Inappropriate accounting tactics to fund the Presidential House, lies on attendance at football games, Dickenson cover-up, to name a few.) is recent years.
This is not saying all is doom at EMU. There is so much good happening. EMU has fantastic, motivating, dedicated faculty, and many fine award-winning programs. I just want to see it even better and that means better leadership.
Thank you for hearing me and allowing my opportunity to express my opinion.
I am an Eagle and proud of it. I would never wear a Huron logo, and I would not trade what I am to become a Huron. I know I am not the only one. A vast majority of classes of Eagles from the past decade are proud to be Eagles. Stop living in the past and respect your alma mater. We are now, and probably shall be to the day the institution is no more, Eastern Eagles.
Eastern Eagles, hats off to you!
Maurizio, the past is what makes EMU so great. I am very happy that you are a proud Eagle and hope you are enjoying attending sporting events and being involved.
Just because I will always be a Huron does not mean I am living in the past. It wouldn’t hurt if you were a bit more thankful/respectful of the thousands of Huron alumni who have made millions of dollars in contributions so that your experience as an Eagle is that much better.
I would love to be proud of EMU’s alumni, and I am proud of a lot of them who go on and show how great a University this is, but time after time a group of alumni do nothing but make fun of my University and its mascot, like Jeff exemplifies above. I am not saying don’t be proud to be a Huron because I know you are, I just want the alumni to support the Eagles as well. I am tired of going to a school where the alumni, the faculty, and the student body takes turns berating it.
Maurizio,
I didn’t make fun of your mascot or exemplify anything of that sort.
I was saying that Sitedad labeling EMU HURONs as racists is just as absurd as EMU HURONs labeling EMU EAGLES as Bird Speciesists.
It is the same thing. It is planting an accusatory finger based on your own personal biased misrepresentation of the reasoning behind someone’s behavior whom you disapprove of.
It would go a long ways if Professor Higbee and Sitedad got with their Union leadership to put out some Union support for allowing any kind of Namesake/Logo/ etc. in our bookstores.
It’s one thing to say that you have no problems with EMU Hurons and EMU Normalite and EMU EMUs merchandise in the EMU bookstore…
It’s another ballgame of respect and EMU Spirit for a Union Member to step up and make it happen by at least getting the Union on board.
If everyone wants EMU Students/Alumni to *like* EMU then why not allow everyone to have their choice without condemnation to be associated with whatever namesake?
Why not? Most everyone agrees here that it isn’t right to FORCE the “Eagles” down people’s throats like my own. So? Let’s get the AAUP to at least agree to that.
It goes back to the whole “Indian Guides issue.” Everything in society has headed towards the politically left way for so long and so many ways. Pretty soon there won’t be any reason for me to live in America because all of the things I loved and love will be taken away from me, and replaced with what a Left Leaning individual wants me to conform with.
This whole EMU HURONs issue reminds me of the Twilight Zone episode where the Young Woman unravels her wrappings and discovers she’s ugly (when in fact she’s beautiful, it’s just that she’s living in a world where beauty is now ugly and ugly is now beautiful).
That’s how it feels on EMU’s campus right now. You walk around and see various Students laughing and having fun painting their faces EMU Eagles and you can’t laugh and giggle and enjoy sporting events and have fun yourself because you are an EMU HURON.
As an EMU HURON…. The Campus you live on and educate yourself has forsaken you.
I lived 4 years on campus as a member of the “Forsaken.”
EMU has gone on for 15 years as the Campus of the Forsaken.
Why should it go on like this any further? why?
Now Jeff, don’t make me turn off your posting privileges again….
There are many many layers to this whole thing that are a lot more complicated than “Once a Huron always a Huron.” The very name of the tribe that is supposed to be what is being represented here actually isn’t even “Huron;” it’s Wyandot and/or Wendot. As I understand it, the term “Huron” is considered by many in the tribe (or tribes, since it’s split up and in Kansas, Oklahoma, and Canada) is something of a slur. And yet, we have the Huron river, the Huron Valley, Port Huron, Lake Huron, etc., etc.– in other words, it’s a term associated with the area, and hardly something we can just give up and/or change with the flick of a switch.
I don’t think that the original creators of the Huron logo (Indian head, feathers, etc.) or things like what Mike mentioned before– the “degrading cheers” or “inaccurate depictions” of the tribe and/or Native Americans– were seen as intentionally racist back then. I don’t think the folks who started up the Michigamua stuff at U of M were trying to be hateful when they started that group. Of course, if you go back long enough, most Americans didn’t think there was anything wrong with slavery, women not having the vote, separate but equal schools, etc., etc. But times have changed, and these things and many others are considered racist and insensitive now.
So again, what I would have really preferred to see EMU do is to approach groups like the Huron Restoration folks and actually attempt to have a conversation about all this, about the controversies on both sides, about why the name/logo was changed, etc. Instead, I think the marketing and sports people basically said “you know, if we reward the ‘Once a Huron, always a Huron’ crowd into the game for a big discount, we might put more people in the stands.” It might have been an easy way out 16 years ago to ditch the Huron name/mascot in favor of a generic and difficult to offend one, Bird Speciesist aside. But it’s also an easy and wrong and dumb decision to have a ticket promotion that more or less undermines the current mascot and the work that was done before.
BTW, the same is true with the example of “Indian Guides” that Jeff brings up. I actually did that when I was a kid, though I don’t remember that much about it, other than it seemed a little goofy. I did a quick web search, and this page seems to sum up my experiences well (and, to a large extent, why I think we ought to leave the Hurons thing behind, too). But you know what? The YMCA now calls their Indian Guides program “Adventure Guides.” Let me quote at length why they did that, according to their web site:
So again, times change folks. Maybe we shouldn’t “always be Hurons.”
Sitedad, very well put. I agree completely.
And, putting on my pedantic history prof hat again, i’ll recommend the great little book PLAYING INDIAN by Philip
Deloria. Very readable, and an excellent place for any of the ‘white’ Americans who admire Indians but hasn’t really learned much about them to start exploring the ways in which Indian as people and as symbols have been approrpriated by white Amerians. Like sitedad, I too was part (briefly) of the YMCA “Indian” program…which was all about whites “playing Indian,” as Deloria puts it.
And Jeff – I have no idea why you think this issue is something that the faculty union should take up. How exactly is
it a collective bargaining issue? Oh, maybe you forgot that’s what unions do, collective bargaining issues.
Lastly, I’ll address Prof. Susan Haynes right-on-the money question, “was the Huron mascot chosen, used and clung to because it signalled a standard worthy of emulation or because it was racist?” This is really three different questions, Susan, with
different answers for different time periods. In the age (roughly 1910-1965) when Indian names were being widely appropriated for athletic teams, there was a wide spread sense that Indians possessed the very qualities that a tough team should:
a fighting spirit, a savagery on the field, a bloodthirstyness, a willingness to inflict pain on the opponents. For example When Ypsilanti high school in the 1930s picked “the Braves” as its name, the reason given was that “Indians have plenty of fight.” In sum, Indian
peoples were reduced to a single dimension, and that dimension was defined by non-Indians. And that dimension was,
truly racist, as no culture, no group of people can be reduced to one quality like “plenty of fight.” So, in its origins, the nickname Huron was most certainly as a racist as the choice of other Indian names at other schools. That does not mean that the lloyality that all the Eastern people who considered themselves “Hurons” means that they are racist – not at all. Nor does it mean
that the teams that played under that name were all racist – not at all. But it does mean that the team’s name did arise from an offensive tendency to treat members of one “racial” group as being distinguished by quallities that, aside from the mock combat of sports, are not generally desirable — and in fact are contradictory to the cultural values of countless Native Americans, past and present. Further, the message such names sent were, educationally speaking, very irresponsible, at best.
At every university that has retained Indian nicknames for sports teams, there remains on going controversy; and approrximately one third of the few thousand or more sports teams (secondary and college) that had such names 40 years ago have dropped them. I commend the EMU officials who nearly twenty years ago made the wise choice, however imperfectly it was implemented, of dropping the name Hurons. This choice has not been without controversy, but the other choice would have ensured longer and deeper controversy.
True story…Freshman in Putnam Hall as an international student…First football game and I go since I had nothing else to do…I go there and this totally ridiculous Caucasian kid decked out in feathers and other assorted “weapons” jumps out in front of me…I was scared momentarily:-) I could not help but think how ridiculous the whole thing was somebody trying to resemble an Indian playing in front of a fairly diverse crowd (and probably no real native Americans!). The whole thing turned me OFF completely and it took me years to return to watch a football game…
I think the Huron folks need to get a life and move on and devote all their valuable energy in something positive instead of still trying, years later, to restore a name….It is just a name for crying out loud, get over it!! We are all still human beings and should not be identified with labels such as “Hurons” (watch for that Caucasian mascot wanting to skin you) or Eagles (must admit, it is kind of silly).
How about Hurons, no Indian mascots allowed and Swoop stays:-)
Now back on topic, I agree giving them $8 off is insulting to all the rest of us.
To be honest when I first heard that EMU’s nickname was the Hurons, I thought why did they pick a lake for a masot? I wondered what would that logo and jersey look like? What would the masot on the sideline be running around wearing? And why Lake Huron if EMU was down here in SE Michigan? I mean it’s close, but Erie was closer.
Then I thought, that’s kind of dumb. Obviously, they chose the name after the river. It cuts right through the campus’ backyard. The old stadium was nearby. Of course I could not picture that logo either.
So I convinced myself it must be that Michigan accent that I had not quite picked up yet. They were really the EMU Herons. You know the wading, crane-like birds that inhabit all the lakes around here. And it was a fun play on words – you know emus vs herons. That was it – had to be!
Boy was my first baskeball game a surprise!
Ah to be young and naive again……
J Physics,
Yours is one of the most charming and lovely posts I have read on EMUTalk. Thank you for sharing, one can not help but smile when reading it.
I was on the Committee to Study the Logo Issue. The Committee was not necessarily given the mandate to get rid of the Huron name and logo, but to study alternatives. One of the alternatives was to keep just the name. We held two public hearings and surveyed all of the Indian Tuition waiver students on campus. Out of less than a dozen (perhaps 7 – my memory is fading on this) only 2 or 3 bothered to respond. I think at least one response was to get rid of the logo and name all together, one response could have cared less. We also surveyed alumni – most were in favor of keepng at least the name. Anyway, two activist Native Americans on the Committee turned it into a racial issue. Finally, the Committee voted to keep the name and drop the logo. This was not a unanimouse decision. After that President Shelton, on his own, decided to drop both the name and logo. The Regents voted in favor. A few years later (?) it was almost brought before the Board again by a Regent, however the individual passed away and the issue was dropped. Resurrecting the Huron logo or name is best left in the past. I received harassing phone calls from Huron supporters and my wife received phone calls at her work place from the Activist Students on the Committee asking her to stop having an Indian Pow Wow for her Kindergarten Class. I consider the Eagle name rather bland and never wear anything that has this logo on it. I prefer the block “E”. The Chair of our Committee was Gene Smith, at that time the Athletic Director. His wife was a 100% Native American – Apache/Lumbee. She basically read us the riot act when she came before the Committee. Also, remember that Eastern had no real affiliation with the Wyandottes or Hurons, except for the fact that they may have had a camp in the area. A couple of students picked the name in a contest back in the 20′s or 30′s. A part of CMU’s campus is actually on the Chippewa Reservation. Anyway – preserving the name Chippewas is also a nice opportunity to advertise the tribal owned casinos.
“Oh, maybe you forgot that’s what unions do, collective bargaining issues. ”
What I am familiar with is that those who are not a member of a union in the workplace have ZERO political power to change the workplace environment.
Those who have union membership have ALL of the political power.
For example.
Say you have 1,000 employees in your pretend company.
900 are not unionized.
100 are.
Guess who decides everything with the company regarding Benefits, Quality of Life issues, and etc?
The unionized 100 decides things with the company in negotiations that ultimately impact all 1,000 employees regardless if the other 900 is completely opposed to the decision.
My point?
My point is that to suggest the Union doesn’t influence anything or doesn’t have any political power regarding Quality of Life in the workplace and so on… Which the HURON issue clearly represents. That’s all in the hands of the AAUP.
The reason non-unionized employees are called, “Non-Bargaining,” is exactly that. The Company or the University in you case doesn’t want anything to do with anyone who isn’t a Union member.
That’s the problem with everyone thinking this HURON issue is nothing more than a Namesake/LOGO issue. It’s a heck of a lot more than that.
It represents Tyranny.
Sorta like the Ypsilanti High School that drop the “Braves” name and refuses to allow even the name “Hawks” to be considered.
It’s political correctness gone awry. And as long as the AAUP is not willing to take a stand on the HURON issue (or if they are opposed to it), then everyone else that wants the HURON name is well… Tough beans.
In a perfect world… The HURON namesake would be allowed.
As for the bad phone calls and such. Again… It’s because this whole issue boils down to Tyrannical Administrative Power…
It’s where the MINORITY of a population dominates and controls the MAJORITY population through stealth committees, rather than a Democratic Vote.
>>>>>>That’s the problem with everyone thinking this HURON issue is nothing more than a Namesake/LOGO issue. It’s a heck of a lot more than that. It represents Tyranny.
Say what???
>>>>>>In a perfect world… The HURON namesake would be allowed.
In a perfect world, the EMU football team would have a winning record, the Tigers would be in the World Series now and the Lions would make the playoffs….Last time I checked we have not lived in a perfect world in a long time….if ever!
>>>>>>>As for the bad phone calls and such. Again… It’s because this whole issue boils down to Tyrannical Administrative Power…
So are you justifying the harassing phone calls???? I hope not.
>>>>>>>It’s where the MINORITY of a population dominates and controls the MAJORITY population through stealth committees, rather than a Democratic Vote.
I would suggest you find another cause and throw your passion behind it, a cause that can actually make a positive contribution and help improve the lifes of more people than just a few diehards who keep ranting on about this logo issue so many years later….The vast majority of people around here could not care less, we have moved on. Please consider doing the same.
Thank you.
I wonder what people living under real tyrannies would think about our situation. I think a big “Blankity-blank blank” would come to mind.
(sorry sitedad, but somebody’s gotta say it)
sitedad note:
I’m not sure this is the right move or not, but I decided to slightly edit Jim’s comments here. I in many ways share the original sentiments expressed by Jim, something closer to a word rhyming with “duck” and suggesting a common (though technically impossible) self-inflicted action. However, the rules do apply here, so I’ll go ahead and apply them. Play nice people….
I know that this will sound pedantic, especially after the nicely humorous quote from J Physics, but can we please stop referring to Native Americans as “Indians”? There is a whole country called India in which real-live Indians live, work, breathe, eat, dream, and pat each other on the back, people who should not be confused with the original inhabitants of North and South America simply because Columbus happened to have his geography profoundly askew …
“So are you justifying the harassing phone calls???? I hope not.”
No. I am sorry I wrote what I said without clarifying. After I submitted that I immediately thought someone would think that. The problem is I can’t explain what I know succinctly.
My point was that during the whole fiasco there was a whole lot of finger pointing and assumptions and accusations and no one really cared about what makes EMU….EMU.
Instead of rising above… Everyone decided to shove doing the right thing under the carpet and to take the easy way out in life.
That’s why EMU has had scandal after scandal. EMU’s fate was sealed 15 years ago.
Look at the Bowling Alley that’s missing. Does that give you a clue? Doesn’t that mean something?
Isn’t there a sense of symbology? The total absence of the bowling alley?
It was the absence of well College Couples going out on a date and enjoying themselves right here….on Campus…. and not in DEPOT TOWN or Ann Arbor. But right here.
On the EMU PIPELINE group…. I wrote (and it’s probably still there) that the issue with EMU is far more than who happens to be President or who resides in Welch Hall. I said that you can remove people and replace people but ultimately the corruption is still there.
A lot of people have been hurt mightily by the decisions and choices that this university makes and the last thing people want to hear is “Let’s move on.”
The Huron issue was never about the HURON namesake. It wasn’t. It’s about something far more than stupid LOGO or T-Shirt. And I am sorry that people can’t understand what I am trying to explain.
Maybe people just need to watch Journeyman.
Do you honestly think if things were handled the *right way* that we would have had all of these scandals right after that moment we got rid of the Huron namesake?
No amount of pain or heartache justifies any phone calling or death threats and all of that.
But the existence of those death threats is not justification for ruining people’s lives.
I really think the issue with scandals has nothing to do with the Huron mascot. They have everything to do with hiring corrupt officials. Our latest scandal(s) have had nothing to do with the people who were responsible for (rightly, IMHO) ousting the offensive mascot (just because you aren’t a racist doesn’t mean the mascot wasn’t, on multiple levels).
Well…it’s not really accurate to use Native Americans either–as there were people living here long before the Americas were so titled (after some Spaniard, if my memory serves me correctly). In addition to Prof. Higbee’s recommended reading list, I would recommend books by Louise Erdrich (fiction). I agree with the post that the passion directed toward what we call our football team could serve humanity better if directed somewhere else. On the brighter side, thanks to an inspiring woman who is directing her energy in a more positive direction, there are 90 students enrolled in the Ojibwa class at U of M, including Mike Hart. Yup, it’s ALL about football….that’s how we avoid addressing the No. 1 and the No. 2 topics currently posted on this blog….and how we sleep at night with the world in the state it’s in.
Thanks, Alum, for your sharing your memory of this bit of EMU history. I really appreciate it.
I also very much regret that some people made those harassing phone calls. Every group of advocates has, at least potentially, some crazies or badly behaved people associated with it….i say this not to excuse such behavior, but to merely put it in
context.
I’d also say that those split decisions – drop the logo, keep the Indian nickname – seem to be the most unstable of ways
of responding to this controversy. So I think Pres. Shelton was wise to say let’s dump both at once. Ypsi high school a year or so ago decided on a split decision – keep Braves, dump the Brave logo – and it drew lots of protest, and the school board then, within a year, reversed itself and decided to go for a clean sweep. Wise move. Leadership rarely is capably excercised in halfway steps.
All the best to you, Alum.
Just a quick follow up to the Ojibwa language class comment made by DNLF…
I saw a poster in our own Halle Library the other night regarding the beginning of an Ojibwe language group at EMU. Sadly I can’t do it because of my teaching schedule, but I hope we’ll have a good turn-out. Seems like a wonderful opportunity to learn more.
I was raised an [EMU] Huron and as an Ypsi Brave. I was “in the corners” on the change back then, knowing many that were privy to all of Sheldon’s meetings. He made it basically on his own to mark his legacy in the office. Many people were not given due time to speck in these meeting, especially if they were known to oppose Sheldon’s views. I probably would be more behind the name change if I knew it was done totally fair and without a hidden agenda.
My daughter wears an ancient Huron’s T-shirt and gets many positive comments on it. She has yet to hear a negative one. BUT she is called a Nazi at school, asked if she celebrates Hitler’s birthday and accused of hiding Jews in her ovens. Every [ethnic] group has its problems. I haven’t found any group yet to stand up for the people that are 100 percent of a culture that hear hurtful words in our free society.
By the way we saw an old EMU Huron logo on an ATT bus today!