I just changed the settings on EMUTalk.org so that all comments have to be approved and so that I am the only one who is allowed to make original posts. Part of the reason for this is the latest news on the presidential search and an effort to head off a “food fight” (or worse!) on the site before it happens; but most of my reasons have been brewing for a long time, both personal and philosophical, and discussed a bit more after the “read more part” of things.
If you want to post a comment on a post, go ahead– it will show up once I approve it (or it won’t show up, which means I didn’t approve it). If you want to write an original post under your own name, under a pseudonym, or just something you want me to post under my own name: write it up, email it to me (either at sitedad at emutalk dot org or at stevendkrause at gmail dot com), and I’ll post it (or not, if I don’t think it’d be a good idea).
If you don’t like this, I think you should start your own blog. And to be perfectly honest, that’s what I hope happens. What I really hope is we move away from this single space (known by far too many simply as “the blog) to a community of different blogs and voices that discuss EMU and everything else.
So, why am I doing this?
When I set up EMUTalk.org back in September 2006, I had very modest expectations and goals. I thought I could host a space where people could comment about things having to do with EMU, I thought I could invite a wide variety of voices to contribute, everyone from students, faculty, staff members, administrators, and concerned members of the community, all writing about things important to both them and the EMU community. I imagined a site with dozens of writers, though with probably a somewhat limited audience. On my own blog, I get maybe 100 hits on a busy day; I thought if I got twice as many hits as that on EMUTalk.org, that would be successful.
Things have turned out differently than I thought.
For starters, I didn’t expect the variety of voices here to be as few as they are. Even though anyone could sign up as a poster to the site and there are few restrictions on who can comment, an enormous percentage of both posts and comments on this site can be attributed to fewer than eight or ten people. That’s hardly representative of EMU, and I know that one of the reasons why more people don’t participate is because they feel intimidated by the few folks who are posting and commenting.
I didn’t expect this site to routinely get 300 page visits and considerably more when there is EMU news– yesterday, for example, there was 1,906 page views. I didn’t expect an audience of administrators and (apparently) members of the BoR who would refer to EMUTalk.org simply as “the blog.” And, for better or worse, I guess I didn’t think of the implications of EMUTalk.org being seen as “Krause’s blog,” and how some of the various opinions on it– including the ones I disagree with– might be inadvertently and indirectly associated with me.
My wife is fond of describing EMUTalk.org as my monster, and it wasn’t a good idea for Dr. Frankenstein to just send his creation out into the world on his own. So it’s time to take him/it back home again.
The informal conversations I’ve had with some of my colleagues have suggested that this might actually make for a space that includes a wider variety of contributors. We will see. But I guess I have come to realize that there are, sadly, limits to free speech and some reasons why it might be a good idea to not host a site where anyone can say anything. Which reminds me: I need to read Stanley Fish’s book There’s No Such Thing as Free Speech: And It’s a Good Thing Too.
I know this is going to disappoint and upset some people, particularly the eight or ten folks who are most active in their postings. But I really do hope they start their own blogs that I can link to and read, and I am not saying that in some sort of mean-spirited “I’m going to take my ball and go home” sort of way. Abby, Mark, Alum: seriously, start your own blogs. You have good things to say, things I frequently don’t agree with and things that I don’t want to be associated with directly, but good things nonetheless. It would be absolutely fantastic for these and other folks to have their own spaces to say what they want, and it is completely fitting with the research I’ve done this year. So far, what I’ve seen is that community in the blogosphere is a lot like parallel play: different people saying and doing their own thing, but in relation to others who are saying and doing their own thing on similar topics.
There’s no reason why any one of the “usual suspects” here couldn’t or shouldn’t create their own blogs. In fact, from my point of view, this would be preferable. I think linking to the blogs of others here and have a broader range of conversation beyond just “the blog” would be an excellent thing.
Anyway, that’s the score. More changes will be happening soon.
You might not intend this to come off as “I’m going to take my ball and go home,” but for me that’s definitely what this comes off as.
Maybe we use and interact with blogs differently, sitedad, but for me the point of having a blog like EMUTalk, rather than half a dozen blogs that just happen to be written by EMU-affiliated people, is that it does provide one concise place for all of the EMU conversations to happen. I don’t have the time or inclination to browse half a dozen blogs looking for conversations about EMU. I already have my personal blog, but really it’s not a place for me to have discussions about EMU because so many people on my friends list have absolutely no connection to EMU and the service I use isn’t the most friendly for non-members to comment and contribute.
Maybe this is because my experience with blogs is mostly centered around Livejournal-like services, where the building of communities is inherent in the blogging process. Every user has their own personal blog, but a majority of conversations (I have no statistics to back this up, but it sure feels like a majority) are held in communities that are set up similar to this one: a central topic where multiple people can contribute to the discussion of that topic.
Well, besides the reasons I gave before (that is, the current model seems to be more of a forum for a few people to talk about the same topics over and over and less about building community, and by taking more control, I am hoping more people feel comfortable in participating), four basic thoughts for now, Angela:
* One of the basic concerns I have had and probably the main reason I am doing what I’m doing here is because of how I am sensing this blog reflects on my own “real world” professionalism and reputation. I mean, in one sense I don’t have much to lose professionally since I am a full professor and I am pretty sure I am not going to be going out on the job market anytime soon. Though never say never. At the same time, I have just grown increasingly uncomfortable about the associations– indirect though they may be– with my name, professionalism, and reputation with some of the shanangians that have sometimes happened here. And my career means a lot to me.
* Part of the problem here is that an enormous percentage of readers of EMUTalk.org– the ones who tend to refer to it as “the blog”– are really not familiar with the conventions and practices of the larger blogosphere/internet conversation forums, sites like the ones you mention on Livejournal. I think this has been problematic for a while, and I think what it means is this is a group that needs a little more “guidance” than a group/community of readers and writers more familiar with the bigger blog world.
* You’ve also hit the nail on the head with the comment about folks who blog/converse around LiveJournal tend to have their own blogs/discussions. My research this year about blogs has suggested so far that community most often takes place in the blogosphere (I don’t like that word, but I don’t know of another one right now) not on individual blogs like EMUTalk.org per se, but rather among groups of blogs centered around a topic. In my surveys so far, I have found that there are communities of academic bloggers, bloggers about aviation, bloggers about veganism, bloggers about Ypsilanti, etc. who individually keep blogs (and perhaps that represents individuality? a voice? accountability?) but who also see themselves and their blogs as a part of a larger blogging community, and they participate in this community by both writing on their own blogs and reading/commenting on bloggers in their communities.
So again, when I say “get your own blog and I’ll link to it,” I am totally totally serious. Heck, if it would help, I’d even post instructions on how to set up your own blog with a free service like blogger.
* Finally, I just want to point out that if I really wanted to end this completely, I would. All I’d have to do is delete the directory that hosts the site.
For me this has implications far greater than “take my ball and go home.” It appears that people with greater influence than most of us were able to alter the conduct of this board with one well-placed email. Anyone who has spent much time on these electronic forums should be aware that comments are wide and varied. They are, however, also self-checking. That was obvious from some of the responses to posts that seemed to have less validation than others. Most importantly, the notion that a presidential candidate would decline our offer because of a comment he or she read on this forum is really pushing the envelope. Any candidate who would decline based upon a comment from this board is truly making a decision that is in the best interest of EMU.
Next November we will go to the polls to elect a President of the United States. Some of us will be well-informed, others will not be, but fortunately all of our votes will count equally. As I am writing this I realize that this is the first time since I served on an intelligence mission with the United States Navy in 1968 that my words are being censored. Free speech has always been an important hallmark of any academic community. My hope is that that principle will be upheld at EMU, regardless of who our next President may be.
Sitedad,
Though I agree with you about how this blog has become a bit of a sore spot at EMU. And I also feel you need to have more control over what is said. As for someone who myself is getting ready to become a blog host (nothing to do with EMU it is going to be a national blog on LGBT College Life), I have learned a great deal by watching and being an active member here.
However, I do have a problem with turning this into “your” blog. By the nature of the title of the Blog EMUTalk.org people will get the impression that this blog is “everything EMU” meaning the community is an active member.
Whether you believe this or not you are the one not being hurt. You are not the one writing the words, you just provided the space. I say keep this space just like it is so all the community members who wish to make comment and hurt themselves do so. They are adults and most of all professionals.
Another thought I have is for you to completely do away with EMUTalk.org….DONT EVER SELL THE DOMAIN NAME….let others start their blog like you said…I highly doubt they will…..you have my support in whichever direction you take. I understand you have to make sure you don’t hurt yourself professionally. Those who I have talked to do not think you are the one at fault.
I understand your frustration, sitedad. It’s obvious you feel EMUTalk has been hijacked.
Usually, I only lurk here, reading the postings and comments, but without anything to add, being as I am only a concerned Ypsilanti community member and cannot speak to the internal affairs of the university. Yet, even when I only lurk, this site has been a window into that world and it has ben reassuring to me that voices have been raised in opposition to the missteps, obvious to the outside world or not, that EMU has made. This site serves a wider community than you know and I commend you on your diligent efforts. No wonder you are tired now.
But, I’m wondering if you couldn’t hand the blog over to another one or two people, who would then become the “siteparents” so you could walk away. That way, it would evolve in whatever fashion it is meant to evolve without your career being placed in any sort of jeopardy. If it devolves, instead, to a small group of whiners and complainers, so be it. It will be discounted and avoided by others after awhile.
I would truly miss EMUTalk if it went away entirely. On the other hand, I really dislike the idea of your arbitrarily acting as Blog God and deciding what can and cannot be posted or what comments will do. I think the handful of posters and commenters who have made this site less than it could be should step forward and pledge to do better. They need to realize that their domination of the comments turn people away. They need to look at how their actions have been destroying something they obviously care about. But, your new way of proceeding would be equally destructive. Please reconsider.
cbylone, right on the front page of the site, it says “EMUtalk.org is NOT affiliated with Eastern Michigan University. It’s an electronic community of all kinds of folks who care and want to write about EMU,” and anyone who looks at the “about” page will see plenty of other disclaimers along those lines too. And yet, I think you are right: a lot of people out there do indeed see this as a blog that is “everything EMU.” To me, this is all the more reason to heavily moderate the space: so that it stays on target, so it is inviting/inclusive for everyone, so that it isn’t dominated by just a few voices, etc.
Oh, and when you start up that LGBT page, let me know and I’ll link to it.
Dave Leapard, let me respond to a couple of points you raise. First off, you are implying with the idea that “one well placed email” is what lead me to this decision to change the rules of participation in the forum. That didn’t happen, and interestingly enough, it has never happened: no one, administrative or otherwise, has either formally or informally requested that I shut the site down. So no, the idea that anyone asked me to tighten up the moderation on this site is just not true.
The closest that I ever came to that was an email conversation I had with Fallon back in November 2006. He was never crazy about the blog, obviously, but the way he framed his thoughts for me was what he saw as a lack of civility and decorum in the “free-for-all.” In a weird way, he might have been kind of right.
As for censorship: you’re telling me that in 40 years of professional work and life in general, no one ever told/asked you not to “say something,” and you haven’t stopped yourself from saying/writing something because you thought there might be consequences? Really?
In any event, I don’t think that what I’m doing here is censorship for all kinds of different reasons. Look at it like this: when you send a letter to the editor of a local newspaper or one of those “other voices” articles that the AAN runs once in a while, they inevitably make some editing decisions and choices, and they get to decide whether or not to run it at all. Is that frustrating? Sure, and I say that as someone who has had some letters in the AAN that have been (I thought) poorly edited, and I have had other letters/articles not run. Is that censorship? I don’t think so.
And besides that, if I wanted to censor you, I wouldn’t have allowed your comment to be posted.
And again, I would really encourage you to start your own blog. I don’t mean to sound like a broken record here, but I am drop-dead serious that I am convinced that the best way to foster a community of bloggers interested in EMU, the Ypsi-Arbor area, and similar topics is to get these different folks to make their own contributions.
You make some excellent points and I am relieved to hear that, in fact, one well-placed email was not the motivation of your decision. As for the 40 uncensored years, I can honestly say that most instances of censorship imposed during that time were self-imposed. You are correct, however, in your assertion that most letters to the editor are edited (censored) in one way or another. Also, as one who has moderated other boards, you are to be commended for the efforts you have made in originating this kind of forum. As a friend of mine who was a small town mayor once told me, “this is the kind of job where you’re gonna get a lot more cussin’ than lovin’.”
Let’s face it: Steve started something wonderful, EMUtalk, that has done an awful lot to promote community and dialog and transparency at EMU. I never called it “the blog”, as I read too many blogs to be singular about them, but it did introduce many folks to what blogs are (are you still lurking here, Mr. Fallon?), which was no doubt an educational accomplishment in itself. And one of the many nice things EMUTalk accomplished is that it gave Steve the basis to apply for and get a sabbatical, to write about blogs and communities. He’s made a professional step from this blog. Terrific.
But now he is unable to face the burden of being the sponsor of continued unfettered dialog, and has been pressured and does not feel being associated with the free forum he created. So he is closing up the free forum, and will “edit” or moderate the new EMUTalk according to his own inconsistent standards and taste.
In the past, Steve did not object when anonymous commentators made serious yet entirely unsubstantiated and untrue allegations of professional misconduct against me or others who wrote on EMUTalk. He displayed an indifference between criticism of individuals given anonymously or in the name of the critic, and was content to let all post what they wanted; after all, he was the host, and not responsible. True enough. He was also repeatedly clear that the blog did NOT reflect his views, and that he was not accountable for opinions posted here, and he courageously asserted that independence. At times, he defended EMUTalk as a free forum (most crucially in the period right after the end of the 10 weeks of lying), and other times he regretted that EMUTalk was what it was – a free forum. His rules changed over time, as did his comfort zone for criticizing EMU officials. And now he imagines that our presidential candidates are too weak to read here that EMU is not an entirely harmonious place, as if any of these 4 candidates hadn’t been reading Michigan newspapers and watching Michigan TV news for the last 2 years. So that’s an odd reason for the change.
Steve also complains that this blog has too few contributors, and blames us for the narrow range of views, as if strong arguments necessarily shut out other arguments. This is false reasoning — the real reasons for so few contributors and so many lurkers are these: 1) lots of people fear that engaging in debate publicly at EMU will harm them professionally because of the censorious, often vindictive practices of the powers that be, 2) lots of people, in all aspects of their lives, try to avoid direct participation in conflict, intellectual or otherwise, and 3) a lot of people come to EMUTalk to learn what others are thinking and what’s going on, rather than from a desire to “have a say.” His solution seems more likely to make a dull blog with fewer contributors than a lively blog with many writers — or maybe it will become an annex of University Communications?
What has Steve – or any of us? – done to get more readers and contributors to the blog? Nearly nothing as far as I can tell. Instead of trying outreach, Steve’s closing up the old shop and opening a narrower EMUTalk. I proposed once some leaflet outreach to students to promote EMUTalk.org, but Steve didn’t reply, which I took to mean “no, not interested, don’t bother.”
Steve, who is an honorable person, has told me directly that my own outspokenness on EMUTalk has been part of what motivates him to seize control of postings and comments. Fine and good; it’s property, so he has that right. But Prof. Dave Lepard is absolutely right -sitedad is implementing changes that do mean he’s gonna censor EMUTalk’s as a forum for exchanging views and ideas about EMU. And I am sure that Dave is right in reporting that he, professionally, hasn’t been censored since he was in the Navy decades ago — after all, the professorate very existence is based on the unacceptability of censorship. Academe is not the corporate world – it is our duty to express our considered opinions. Professors are, as a rule, unused to censorship in their own lives or professions.
And the beauty of EMUTalk was that it was the first widely accessible forum at EMU that WAS NOT SUBJECT TO CENSORSHIP! That was a break thru for EMU. A breadth of fresh air for lots of EMU officials, who read on “the blog” what they heard whispered behind closed doors….things like, ‘the EMU budget process is corrupt and unprofessional and produces destructive results.
I give thanks to Steve for forging it and for standing by it as long as he could. I don’t blame Steve for not having the guts to stand by his original creation, and I praise him for his creativity and work on this blog over time; but Angela and Chris and others are absolutely right about how extreme these changes are: From its inception, EMUTalk was, more or less, a free forum, uncensored, where people put out info that they thought others should know about (and lots of it was hot and controversial, absolutely). But henceforth, every reader will have to wonder “What was not posted here that I would have liked to see? What misdeeds are not being blogged about on EMUTalk?” Why bother to read a forum that’s got built on exclusion of everything that does not meet one person’s sense of what’s worth posting? Unlike print outlets, the blogosphere is marked by a far lighter editorial control and greater leeway – freedom! – for readers/commentators. Steve is moving EMUTalk back in the direction of a newsletter reflecting one editor’s taste and away from the values of the blogosphere. Good luck with that project. Maybe it’ll work.
EMUTalk, Sept. 2006-2008, a free forum. May it rest in peace. Thanks to you, Steve for hosting this as long as you could – “the blog” you gave birth too hit some vital nerves that needed hitting, and you did more good thru this forum that you realize. You should be proud of EMUTalk, not burdened by it.
All typos, errors of logic, spelling, grammar or word choice, plus any excessively argumentative points made in the comment I submitted for moderation at 4:48pm are due to my inability to edit my comment, under the new rules of EMUTalk. it’s less than 90 minutes after I submitted it, and i’m on the same machine, and I did write my comment, but the program says i can’t edit it. So be it.
And obvoiusly, in reality any errors in what i wrote are my fault. But I did try to go back and fix up a few things.
Steve, sitedad, Prof. Krause, somewhat of a blogging mentor to myself…
Like a several of the posters and commenters here, I’ve been with EMUTalk since the beginning. In fact, if I recall, I was among the earliest to request posting access. This blog, in many ways, has been what’s gotten me through the insanity of my first two years here at EMU – from the strike, to Laura Dickinson’s death, to the cover-up and Fallon’s firing.
There have been an incredible amount of heated debates, some of which have devolved to bickering, in that time. Understandable, considering the topics, issues, and the general love and appreciation most people have for the university here. There have also been times where you’ve exercised your powers as moderator to moderate some comments and discussions, to an interesting degree. Sometimes, that was a good move, others, I’m not so sure.
I’ve also seen people join, leave, and come back.
I remember a time, early on, when Kirk deleted some comments on one of his posts, and you declared that it was not only a move in bad taste, it was a move in the realm of censorship. I think that declaration, at that point, allowed everyone to see that this blog was a place where you could have open discussions, and have that openness supported by the creator and maintainer. I found that fantastic.
But now, almost two years later, I get the feeling that you’re feeling some of the pressure from the maintenance of EMUTalk, as well as the intense debates and occasional flamewar. Makes sense – I’ve stopped reading a few times due to those.
Ok, so you want to make this blog a place for wider discussion and commenting, with more people throwing their voices into the ring? Is what you’re doing, then, the best way to go about it? I feel like you’re whining about how things are going here. Maybe you’re not, but that’s the vibe I get from both this post and some of the comments you’ve left on it. Yes, you’ve done something to take care of some of those problems you’re worried and complaining about, but it seems like you’ve gone in the direction of authoritarian, “because I said so!” rather than the direction of democratic, “let’s work this out.”
EMUTalk is a community, and as a community, I feel we should at least have a chance to get some say in the new structure of the blog, in some new rules thought up by everyone, and appreciated by the majority, rather than just handed down by “sitedad.”
I truly appreciate everything you’ve done with this blog, and the community that’s formed as a result. That comes from the bottom of my heart. But I also agree with Mark at this point (which says a lot!). Please, don’t censor this forum.
With that said, do you think there’s a way that we could come to a consensus over changes? Find a way, as a community, to fix some of the issues that you’ve been having problems with? EMUTalk does need to grow; could we potentially help it grow in the direction of a better community, instead of the direction of an edited space run by one man?
Suggestions, perhaps, like: what if there were more than one moderator? That would put less stress on you running the blog.
If anyone else has something in mind, that would be awesome.
And of course, I’d love to hear your response to this, Steve.
Let’s see… Mark says I’m unable to face the burden, he has called me inconsistent (which, btw, I freely admit– I even point this out in “The Rules” that were previously/still sort of are governing the site), has called me indifferent, has suggested this is now going to be a dull blog because of some sense of moderation (in both meanings of “moderation,” btw), says I’m censoring people, and he has said I do not having guts to stand behind this project. And <b>this,</b> this is couched as a complimentary comment!
So, anybody else wondering why I’m trying to execute a little more control around here?
Really, if one reads through “the rules,” the ones I wrote up last September and which Mark and many others complimented, all I am doing here is turning on full moderation, which has always been a power I’ve had and said I might use. Two quotes to share for now:
and
And by the way, you will note that I have used my own moderator judgment to let comments like this latest one by Mark and other to be posted, mainly because I think it’s fair to have a conversation/debate about the change of how EMUTalk.org is going to work.
Oh, and one small correction: EMUTalk.org is the inspiration of my sabbatical book/research project, but it isn’t really the basis of my receiving a sabbatical and it isn’t really the subject of my project. You can read it here, if you want.
Anyway, EMUTalk.org has been a learning experience for me and I suspect many others, too. One of the lessons I’ve learned is that sometimes, moderation is not a bad idea, and I say that as someone who was never that crazy about moderated email list discussions and newsgroups and the like. Maybe this is a sign of age, I don’t know.
And another lesson I’ve learned– or maybe another emotion/feeling exposed– is one of ownership. EMUTalk.org is supposed to be collaborative and interactive, and I am supposed to be like the host of a party. But I guess what I am feeling lately is it’s “my party.” I set it up, I registered the domain name, I spend the time tending to it, etc. It’s a public and community-oriented forum for certain, but it is also… well, mine. As a good post-structuralist, I’m not sure how I feel about this emotion/feeling of ownership and control, but there it is.
In any event, preventing the writings of others to appear on a blog space that I started is not censorship. It’s moderating. If I somehow had the power to prevent Mark or David or anyone else to not express themselves in their own blog forums (or in speaking in the public square or in handing out leaflets or whatever), that’d be censorship.
One last time: Mark and others, start a blog. Seriously. Seriously. The timing is excellent as I am sure there are people reading this forum now who would love to read a blog of yours. I would be very happy to link to it, to subscribe to it with an RSS feed, to quote from it and engage it in dialog here, etc., etc. I need to write up some “how to” lessons on blogger and Google Reader (Angela, this is an RSS feed reading software that allows you to read a bunch of different blogs in one place, btw) for some teaching I’m doing this spring term anyway; maybe when I get them done, I’ll post a version of them here.
I am one of many of “past-contributors” who both applauds and looks forward to Sitedad’s new vision for “the blog.” (And no, I will not substantiate my claim–you’re just gonna have to trust that I’ve actually spoken to LOTS of people who don’t post here anymore for very reasons that have led Steve to revamp emutalk.org.)
Looking forward to future good-faith dialog and reasoned debate.
Steve, my apologies if I misrecalled what you told me about your sabbatical, but my recollection is that in one of our several face to face chats when we ran into each other at the store was that you said the sabbatical was most certainly the result of EMUTalk.
And all my compliments were sincere, Steve, as were my attempts to analyze why you’re turning the once proud free forum into a Moderated forum where readers will be unable to know what was edited, altered, totally excluded, or just plain discouraged from being written in the first place.
But if I’d had the ability to edit the post, i’d have taken out the line about guts. Very sorry about that.
Kayla is absolutely right: emutalk has been a community – and communities aren’t always harmonious not real ones anyway, and emutalk has been real and valuable. More voices would be good – i just doubt that censoring some voices will produce more voices or a more interesting forum. EMUTalk at its best has reflected the actual EMU, and it’s helped improve EMU by making for more communication, rather than just accepting the too constrained norms of communication at EMU, where even dept. heads often wonder if they have “permission” to say something about something they know to be true….
Good Passover to all who observe it. And for those who live in Ypsilanti, maybe you’ll hear the calls of the American toads tonight, which are beautiful and abundant on the east side of town these days.
I will say, after more consideration and thought, that while I stand behind everything I said in my previous post, I will also be incredibly interested in seeing how things pan out for EMUTalk with the changes you’ve implemented, Sitedad.
I will be so happy if they work out in the way you’re hoping.
If they don’t, I also resubmit my ideas for a discussion among the EMUTalk community on how to make this blog more inclusive and conducive to your original aims.
Good luck, Steve. I want things to work out!
I can understand the reasoning behind this and I guess we’ll see how it pans out.
“In any event, preventing the writings of others to appear on a blog space that I started is not censorship.”
Since you started this under the guise of being a EMU community site – not as a personal blog – I’m not so sure I agree with that. But, hey, it’s (now?) your site and you’ll do what you want regardless of what anyone else says.. at least, that sure seems my impression after reading this post.
Well among the things I guess I’ve learned by watching this blog evolve is that creating e-communities is exceedingly difficult because, unlike in the “real” world, here the person who owns the very platform that allows such communities to exist at all can also control the nature and focus of discussion by fiat. That doesn’t create a sense of “citizenship” but rather, it creates a subject-ruler relationship. I fear it will also lead to what I see as a major negative of the “blogosphere” (a word I don’t like either), which is that we end up with lots and lots of blogs where one or a couple of individuals can pour their hearts and minds out, but NO ONE ELSE IS PARTICIPATING. Analysis and reflection are really better done in a community rather than in isolation – a tenet that I thought were fundamental to academia, by the way (think peer review, conferences, publication). The back-and-forth nature of this blog had been something I appreciated.
As you’ve pointed out Steve, it is your blog and you can do what you like with it. So I hope you won’t mind when I decline to provide any financial support for it this year, as I (and many others) did last year when I thought this was really a community effort.
Mike Garrison and EMU Lecturer, I think you are making really good points, and in my opinion, you are pointing to the paradox that is EMUTalk.org. What I was hoping for when I set this site up was a relatively egalitarian community where many different voices and different types of voices could post and make comments. However, this has not come to pass and I think the numbers of posts/comments demonstrate this.
There have been 720 posts on EMUTalk.org so far. 319 have been accredited to me, though that is kind of a fuzzy number for a variety of reasons I won’t go into right now. Regardless, the majority of original posts are mine. Of the remaining 400 or so posts, about 200 of them were authored by 3 people. There have been 6,520 comments on EMUTalk.org so far. About 2,000 of those comments can be attributed to 4 people (and I am one of those people, btw). To me, that isn’t really a “community;” rather, it’s more or less a space where a surprisingly small number of people say whatever they want and a surprisingly large number of people watch it.
Frankly, this is a concern I’ve had for a long time with EMUTalk.org. In fact, this was a big part of a conference presentation I gave last year, and I know that I’ve brought this up here several times before. These concerns resulted in a more restrictive commenting process starting last September 2007 where I started to require a valid email address.
Now, I don’t understand completely why this has been the case, but I guess it is the paradox of a completely open forum: despite the fact that there is nothing technically to stop nearly anyone from posting new comments and such, the result has been that some overly-involved posters and commentators have come to dominate the forum and I believe they have discouraged others from voicing an opinion. So even though this is a digital forum that can host a much wider variety of contributors, it hasn’t come to pass, I think because many potential posters and commentators feel intimidated.
So even though it doesn’t make a lot of face-value sense, I actually think that having a more strictly moderated forum will increase participation, at least in terms of the variety of voices. Paradoxically.
And besides all that, I have also come to start believe that to the extent that EMUTalk.org reflects on EMU as a whole (as a result of web searches, because of the site’s readership, etc., etc.), it does not always reflect my university favorably. Thus the high-ranking of the search term “emu professor whiners,” for example.
Now, as for the point EMU Lecturer is making about lots and lots of individual blogs with no one participating: this is very true, and it is one of the interesting things I have noticed about how “community” works in lots of different blogs. It reminds me a bit of what young children do in “side by side play:” not so much playing with each other as it is playing next to each other. In the survey I’ve been sending out as part of my research, I have a couple of questions on community. Almost 60% of the blogs I have surveyed received fewer than 10 comments per week. To the question “I view my blog as a community for my readers,” about 60% or respondents so far either “strongly agree” or “agree.” But to the question “I see my blog fitting into a larger community of bloggers with similar interests,” about 73% either “strongly agree” or “agree.” And the responses I have received from some of the case study participants suggest that a lot of bloggers have a broader sense of community that the multiple choice questionnaire reflects.
By the way, it’s worth repeating that I am simply changing the rules of moderationon EMUTalk.org. I am not shutting the site down, I have deleted very few comments since this all started, and I am hoping to solicit from other contributors soon. My hope is that moderation will actually mean more than four people do the writing here.
As for funding: I understand not providing financial support with this new arrangement, and in a lot of ways, that too is something that strikes me as another mistake I made. What I’ll probably do is either pay for the site out of my pocket (and it isn’t a lot of money, frankly), or I’ll run some google ads, which few seem to mind and which can make the site break even. I haven’t decided yet.
Let me say this is a wonderful site. I’ve been a lurker for some time now and only recently started to post to this blog. I agree there are some heavy hitters who post often and they can be intimidating to others. First thought is I don’t think moderation to point of censorship is a good idea at all. Secondly, anonymous posting is not a bad thing, it lets people who may fear relation speak their mind.
My proposal to you is let the users moderate themselves using a reddit or digg format utilizing voting for user comment posts. For those of you not familiar it gives the users the right to vote down or vote up a comment left by a user. If it’s voted down to a certain threshold then the comment is “hidden” however not deleted and still available for public viewing.
Edit:
As an FYI I found a loophole in the approval process. Once you approve the initial comment it would appear that I can then edit my comment to say whatever I want with out your approval. Just an observation.
I see that you use WordPress and I know there are plug-ins that would allow this (http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/vote-it-up/). Understandably this would mean work for you Steve to implement such a change, but I think this would be a great compromise. This site has always been more of a blog/forum hybrid anyway so maybe it’s time to change the format completely. Keep up the great work Steve!
Sitedad, I never begrudge a moderator the right to enforce the rules as he or she sees fit. I’m a member of one blogging community that regularly and unilaterally will disallow anonymous commenting, or ban users without warning for violating a (clearly posted) rule. However, all good blogging sites also allow the users to critique the moderators and appeal for a change in the rules/their enforcement of them. Yes, if I dislike the rules of EMUTalk, I can go retreat to my personal blog, which might be what I end up doing. But I also want to see if there’s any possibility of these rules being relaxed, or at least see if this change in rules has the results that you’re hoping for.
And I do happen to read most of my blogs on an RSS feed – it’s even how I get information about new posts on EMU Talk. But even when you’re reading all of your news in one place, that can end up being one very, very long blogroll, which inhibits my ability to fully participate in discussion on those blogs.
Hi Steve,
Thanks for the reference to Google Reader. Just a quick question: is there a way to make new comments on emutalk appear there as well as the new posts? That happens for the 18th century blog that I subscribe to in Google Reader, but not for emutalk. The comments are what I find most interesting and what I would like an update on when refreshing. I wonder if there is some way to make that happen.
ps. Kayla, it is very good to hear from you. I hope that all is going well.
One of the things I need to do is redo some of the technical things about how EMUTalk.org is set up, and that includes updating the version of WordPress and changing the layout template so that it can include a variety of different features, including tracking comments with an RSS feed reader. So the short answer right now Abby is I don’t think there is a good way to track comments on EMUTalk.org, but there will be in the next couple of weeks. Stay tuned.
Angela, be sure to share that blog address so I can get around to linking to it.
And corpratealum, that only works for a half hour I think. But it is another one of those technical things I might need to adjust.
I think there is already a feed set up for comments. I’ve been using it for awhile.
RSS feed of posts: http://emutalk.org/?feed=rss2
RSS feed of comments: http://emutalk.org/?feed=comments-rss2
A handy tip: Use pipes.yahoo.com to trim the feed down to interesting keywords.
As you encourage readers to start their own blogs, perhaps there needs to be a conceptual shift in what EMUtalk.org becomes. Maybe it needs to serve as sort of a feed aggregator for the many blogs that get started, or already exist, out there. Something that actually displays the topics and discussion from other blogs, much more that just links to a community of bloggers.
That’s kind of what I’m hoping for eventually, Ryan. We’ll see how it goes. And jmo, thanks a bunch! I should have know that a long time ago…
Starting a blog sounds like a nice idea (as you suggest yet again in the later post), but it is no where near on the top of the list of the many the many things I have to do for the next few years.
I guess that either you will have to pass along EMU-related new reports yourself (supposing this site is still about EMU, and you want that kind of material), or emutalk readers will have to do it on their own, each individually like the monads we were of yore before we had a community blog to draw us together. It isn’t so hard. I have the following links as tabs in my Safari homepage and they refresh each time I load my browser, bringing the latest updates to view:
http://news.google.com/news?um=1&tab=wn&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22eastern+michigan%22&scoring=n
http://news.search.yahoo.com/search/news?p=%22eastern+michigan+university%22&ei=UTF-8&datesort=1&fr=my-vert-news-top&x=wrt
I am certainly not going to write anything and have it potentially be a waste of my time in being arbitrarily censored. I cannot remember anything that any of the contributors has posted on this site lately that was objectionable, yet we have all lost our privileges, including myself who basically only sent the same links to news articles that you want me to send to you personally now. If the earlier posts have been summarily appropriated and/or censored on “your” blog, why won’t those be? If you want this to be your blog, and your blog solo, then you have to do all the work to maintain it–solo. Power doesn’t come without responsibility.
If you had an editorial policy, that would make it better, I suppose, but right now I have no idea whether what I write will be read or whether what I am reading is everything that others have written. All I know is that every other comment is basically yours, every post is in fact yours, and you already have a whole separate blog to call your own.
As a professor of literature, and as a fan of Mary Shelley, I also have to point out that “Frankenstein” was the over-confident man who made the monster, not the poor unnamed monster that that man so made. So “taking hold of Frankenstein” gives me an rather comic image of sitedad trying to take hold of himself much like a puppy would his tail.
Hi Abby–
First off, thanks for the comment as it is an example of the sort of thing that brought about this new moderation policy. You’re clearly trying to bully me, outwit me, insult me, condescend to me, etc. It doesn’t bother me that much to be perfectly honest, but I believe it is an example as to why I know many people who have said they stopped reading EMUTalk.org, and it is the sort of thing that has prevented a lot of others from posting, commenting, etc. Who wants to post something to EMUTalk.org if this is the sort of treatment they might expect?
Second, and I am sure you are aware of this since you’ve been on EMUTalk.org pretty much since it began, I have always been the sole proprietor of EMUTalk.org. I am the one who has always done the work in terms of maintaining the site, dealing with spam, setting up the template, dealing with the service provider, troubleshooting, etc., etc. All of it, on my own time, as a hobby. True, I didn’t write all of the posts, but that frankly is the least time-consuming part of this project. I’m not complaining because it isn’t back-breaking work, but I think you are vaguely implying that taking over moderation somehow means I am taking back maintenance work I had distributed to others. That’s just not true.
Third, I think the links you supply to news feeds via google and yahoo are very handy– in fact, they are so handy, I have the very same ones, and I am sure that many other EMU folks do too. But this isn’t and never really has been a “news” site, and it never has been. I think folks looking for news ought to look elsewhere.
Finally, and you might be surprised to learn this, but since I have been more or less an “English major” all of my life and I have been teaching at the college level for almost 20 years now, I do have a passing familiarity with one of the most canonical books in the English language, and I am aware that the Frankenstein in Frankenstein is the doctor/scientist and not the monster. And while I appreciate your self-tail-grabbing metaphor, I don’t think that’s correct. I agree with you that Frankenstein is an over-confident and hubris-filled man, but I think the more important tragedy of the book/tale of Frankenstein is that the doctor sets loose upon the world his creation– his monster– and then does not do what he should do to take responsibility for it.
If I am Dr. Frankenstein, my monster is not my own tail. My monster is this blog, something I created and which I set loose on the world with few restrictions in the hope it would flourish. That hasn’t happened because the blog has been taken over/taken advantage of by a few overly enthusiastic participants who end up bullying others. So that’s what I mean by taking hold of Frankenstein, though I would agree that it would have been perhaps more accurate to title this post “Taking hold of Frankenstein’s Monster.”