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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Fix your danged stadium already No. 1:  Eastern Michigan University&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/</link>
	<description>Talk for and about Eastern Michigan U.</description>
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		<title>By: cmadler</title>
		<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/comment-page-1/#comment-61276</link>
		<dc:creator>cmadler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Apr 2010 18:46:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emutalk.org/?p=1801#comment-61276</guid>
		<description>&quot;By the way, someone was telling me the other day that way back when, the EMU football stadium used to be more or less at the corner of Oakwood and Washtenaw in the space that is now a large parking lot. I’m assuming that was a long LONG time ago, but if that was the case, what a shame that the move was made.&quot;

Rynearson was opened in 1969. Prior to that games were played at a field near that corner (end zones were east and west), and the baseball field was directly to the north. I haven&#039;t been able to find much information about it, but I did recently see a big aerial photo of campus (I wish it were online, because it was really spectacular) that must have been taken in spring or summer 1969, because it showed the old field, plus Rynearson under construction (almost finished). What struck me about that, and other photos I&#039;ve seen of the old field are: 1) Rynearson was a long way away from campus when it was built, 2) that old field just had small bleachers on each side, and probably couldn&#039;t have seated more than a few hundred people. Here&#039;s an aerial view from the 1950s: http://media.aadl.org/documents/large/ypsigleanings/2010-spring_015.jpg

Keep in mind that when Rynearson was built, the football team was doing reasonably well. In the late 1960s and early 1970s the team had a bunch of winning seasons, including a trip to the Pioneer Bowl in 1971. One early game at Rynearson actually sold out (1971, a 0-0 tie against Eastern Kentucky). I don&#039;t think EMU could have fit a 15,000 person stadium (Rynearson&#039;s original capacity was 15,500) into that old location, much less the 30,200 that the NCAA required in 1992.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;By the way, someone was telling me the other day that way back when, the EMU football stadium used to be more or less at the corner of Oakwood and Washtenaw in the space that is now a large parking lot. I’m assuming that was a long LONG time ago, but if that was the case, what a shame that the move was made.&#8221;</p>
<p>Rynearson was opened in 1969. Prior to that games were played at a field near that corner (end zones were east and west), and the baseball field was directly to the north. I haven&#8217;t been able to find much information about it, but I did recently see a big aerial photo of campus (I wish it were online, because it was really spectacular) that must have been taken in spring or summer 1969, because it showed the old field, plus Rynearson under construction (almost finished). What struck me about that, and other photos I&#8217;ve seen of the old field are: 1) Rynearson was a long way away from campus when it was built, 2) that old field just had small bleachers on each side, and probably couldn&#8217;t have seated more than a few hundred people. Here&#8217;s an aerial view from the 1950s: <a href="http://media.aadl.org/documents/large/ypsigleanings/2010-spring_015.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://media.aadl.org/documents/large/ypsigleanings/2010-spring_015.jpg</a></p>
<p>Keep in mind that when Rynearson was built, the football team was doing reasonably well. In the late 1960s and early 1970s the team had a bunch of winning seasons, including a trip to the Pioneer Bowl in 1971. One early game at Rynearson actually sold out (1971, a 0-0 tie against Eastern Kentucky). I don&#8217;t think EMU could have fit a 15,000 person stadium (Rynearson&#8217;s original capacity was 15,500) into that old location, much less the 30,200 that the NCAA required in 1992.</p>
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		<title>By: sitedad</title>
		<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/comment-page-1/#comment-59530</link>
		<dc:creator>sitedad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 18:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emutalk.org/?p=1801#comment-59530</guid>
		<description>A couple of thoughts:

*  It might be easier to attract better players and have a better team if we had better facilities, but no one wants to pay the money (especially now, with budgets what they are) to build a better facility, especially since the current team isn&#039;t very good.  Conversely, if our team was halfway decent, I suspect people would be a lot more tolerant of spending money on the team.

*  I think the next couple years will be interesting  to see what happens because I&#039;m pretty sure that EMU is not the only team in the MAC who is facing budgetary strains and who is wondering about football.  But I guess I would ask this:  what&#039;s sacred about the MAC?  I mean, it&#039;s not like they are awesome in everything else but football.  So what if we got out of the MAC and into a different conference?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A couple of thoughts:</p>
<p>*  It might be easier to attract better players and have a better team if we had better facilities, but no one wants to pay the money (especially now, with budgets what they are) to build a better facility, especially since the current team isn&#8217;t very good.  Conversely, if our team was halfway decent, I suspect people would be a lot more tolerant of spending money on the team.</p>
<p>*  I think the next couple years will be interesting  to see what happens because I&#8217;m pretty sure that EMU is not the only team in the MAC who is facing budgetary strains and who is wondering about football.  But I guess I would ask this:  what&#8217;s sacred about the MAC?  I mean, it&#8217;s not like they are awesome in everything else but football.  So what if we got out of the MAC and into a different conference?</p>
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		<title>By: EagleG</title>
		<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/comment-page-1/#comment-59529</link>
		<dc:creator>EagleG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:33:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emutalk.org/?p=1801#comment-59529</guid>
		<description>So, dropping football all together gets out of the MAC in all sports.

Moving football to I-AA gets out of the MAC in all sports.

Moving football to Division II gets out the MAC in all sports.

EMU Supporter, thanks for checking!  It sounds like we need to get out of the MAC in ALL 3 cases outlined above...please confirm.

If this is the case, I will need to reevaluate whether to start my project of getting signatures to drop the football team....just kidding, well, not actually, I thought about it...kind of sick to hold a winless team to one yard passing and still lose the game!  And the only way to not have a super losing team budget is to go on the road and become punching bags to at least two big schools every year!

It all comes down to the relationship between academics and athletics....Not being born here, I always found it quite &quot;unique&quot; seeing athletics in colleges so...glued together.  It never made any sense to me but I have come to accept it as part of the culture...like baseball I guess:-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, dropping football all together gets out of the MAC in all sports.</p>
<p>Moving football to I-AA gets out of the MAC in all sports.</p>
<p>Moving football to Division II gets out the MAC in all sports.</p>
<p>EMU Supporter, thanks for checking!  It sounds like we need to get out of the MAC in ALL 3 cases outlined above&#8230;please confirm.</p>
<p>If this is the case, I will need to reevaluate whether to start my project of getting signatures to drop the football team&#8230;.just kidding, well, not actually, I thought about it&#8230;kind of sick to hold a winless team to one yard passing and still lose the game!  And the only way to not have a super losing team budget is to go on the road and become punching bags to at least two big schools every year!</p>
<p>It all comes down to the relationship between academics and athletics&#8230;.Not being born here, I always found it quite &#8220;unique&#8221; seeing athletics in colleges so&#8230;glued together.  It never made any sense to me but I have come to accept it as part of the culture&#8230;like baseball I guess:-)</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Higbee</title>
		<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/comment-page-1/#comment-59527</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Higbee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emutalk.org/?p=1801#comment-59527</guid>
		<description>thanks, Jackie.  We&#039;re in agreement.

And I shamefully correct my typo near the end of my last post, where when I wrote that &quot;few scholarly studies support the widely repeated claim that  winning teams yield great benefits to the schools fielding those benefits&quot; the last word should have been, obviously, &quot;teams&quot;.   Virtually all the benefits of intercollegiate athletics are intangible.  Everything else in American universities is measured by tangible metrics.

EMU built the Student Center instead of fixing PH a half dozen years ago, and the budgets for each project were about the same.  Guess which was most overcrowded and most run down, the McKinney student union or PH?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks, Jackie.  We&#8217;re in agreement.</p>
<p>And I shamefully correct my typo near the end of my last post, where when I wrote that &#8220;few scholarly studies support the widely repeated claim that  winning teams yield great benefits to the schools fielding those benefits&#8221; the last word should have been, obviously, &#8220;teams&#8221;.   Virtually all the benefits of intercollegiate athletics are intangible.  Everything else in American universities is measured by tangible metrics.</p>
<p>EMU built the Student Center instead of fixing PH a half dozen years ago, and the budgets for each project were about the same.  Guess which was most overcrowded and most run down, the McKinney student union or PH?</p>
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		<title>By: jackie</title>
		<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/comment-page-1/#comment-59526</link>
		<dc:creator>jackie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emutalk.org/?p=1801#comment-59526</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s true about the academic facilities. Ideally Pray-H and Mark Jefferson should have been fixed up a 10-15 years ago. But of course, i believe the EMU has really had tough luck with its presidents in the recent  past. These clowns hardly did anything substantional for the advancement of the university either academically or athletically.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s true about the academic facilities. Ideally Pray-H and Mark Jefferson should have been fixed up a 10-15 years ago. But of course, i believe the EMU has really had tough luck with its presidents in the recent  past. These clowns hardly did anything substantional for the advancement of the university either academically or athletically.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Higbee</title>
		<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/comment-page-1/#comment-59525</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Higbee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emutalk.org/?p=1801#comment-59525</guid>
		<description>I agree Jackie - but would you also agree that it&#039;s a  greater shame that EMU has lacked adequate academic facilities?

And here&#039;s a cut and paste from the Knight Commission&#039;s summary of its new study of how presidents of universities with big football programs see the situation.  The full 51 page report is well worth reading for anyone who claims to care about athletics and education....

&quot;Key findings from the presidential survey.... include:
&quot;Dilemma of reform – While presidents recognize the need for reform, there is a lack of clear consensus about the best way to effect change.  Nearly three-quarters believe that athletics present unique challenges as compared to other areas of the university when trying to control costs on their own campus.  A majority believe institutions must act collectively to address these escalating costs.
&quot;Sustainability - Less than a quarter of presidents believe intercollegiate athletics are sustainable in their current form at FBS institutions nationally. Two-thirds view their own programs as sustainable; but nearly half (48%) express concern that the current economic outlook will affect the number of varsity sports their institution can support in the future.
&quot;Salaries - When asked about salaries across FBS institutions nationally, an overwhelming majority (85%) of FBS presidents indicate they feel compensation is excessive for football and basketball coaches. Viewed as the greatest impediment to sustainability, coaches’ salaries are costs that are difficult to control.
&quot;Growing Divide between Haves and Have-Nots – A major concern is the growing imbalance between financially strong and weak programs. Presidents of less competitive institutions feel that their programs are unfairly exploited.
&quot;Transparency - More than 80% of presidents believe greater financial transparency is needed.
&quot;Benefits of Athletics – College presidents perceive athletic success provides substantial benefits to the institution, such as generating higher levels of fundraising, attracting better qualified students, enhancing school spirit and raising the profile of the institution. Although research generally does not support a significant correlation between athletic success and increased donations or better student quality, FBS university presidents are swayed by personal experience that there are cross-institutional benefits of winning sports programs.&quot;
    http://www.knightcommission.org

This survey seems to largely be focused on schools whose football programs are &quot;winning&quot; programs, ones that arguably make money for the schools.   EMU of course is not really in that category.  Note that the last point in the summary above makes reference to the fact that few scholarly studies support the widely repeated claim that winning teams yield great benefits to the schools fielding those benefits.  Such claims are faith-based, not evidence-based, assertions. 

None of these questions are simple.  What is clear is that the current economic structure of college sports is not likely to be sustainable even at the &quot;rich&quot; schools, much less so at schools like EMU.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree Jackie &#8211; but would you also agree that it&#8217;s a  greater shame that EMU has lacked adequate academic facilities?</p>
<p>And here&#8217;s a cut and paste from the Knight Commission&#8217;s summary of its new study of how presidents of universities with big football programs see the situation.  The full 51 page report is well worth reading for anyone who claims to care about athletics and education&#8230;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Key findings from the presidential survey&#8230;. include:<br />
&#8220;Dilemma of reform – While presidents recognize the need for reform, there is a lack of clear consensus about the best way to effect change.  Nearly three-quarters believe that athletics present unique challenges as compared to other areas of the university when trying to control costs on their own campus.  A majority believe institutions must act collectively to address these escalating costs.<br />
&#8220;Sustainability &#8211; Less than a quarter of presidents believe intercollegiate athletics are sustainable in their current form at FBS institutions nationally. Two-thirds view their own programs as sustainable; but nearly half (48%) express concern that the current economic outlook will affect the number of varsity sports their institution can support in the future.<br />
&#8220;Salaries &#8211; When asked about salaries across FBS institutions nationally, an overwhelming majority (85%) of FBS presidents indicate they feel compensation is excessive for football and basketball coaches. Viewed as the greatest impediment to sustainability, coaches’ salaries are costs that are difficult to control.<br />
&#8220;Growing Divide between Haves and Have-Nots – A major concern is the growing imbalance between financially strong and weak programs. Presidents of less competitive institutions feel that their programs are unfairly exploited.<br />
&#8220;Transparency &#8211; More than 80% of presidents believe greater financial transparency is needed.<br />
&#8220;Benefits of Athletics – College presidents perceive athletic success provides substantial benefits to the institution, such as generating higher levels of fundraising, attracting better qualified students, enhancing school spirit and raising the profile of the institution. Although research generally does not support a significant correlation between athletic success and increased donations or better student quality, FBS university presidents are swayed by personal experience that there are cross-institutional benefits of winning sports programs.&#8221;<br />
    <a href="http://www.knightcommission.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.knightcommission.org</a></p>
<p>This survey seems to largely be focused on schools whose football programs are &#8220;winning&#8221; programs, ones that arguably make money for the schools.   EMU of course is not really in that category.  Note that the last point in the summary above makes reference to the fact that few scholarly studies support the widely repeated claim that winning teams yield great benefits to the schools fielding those benefits.  Such claims are faith-based, not evidence-based, assertions. </p>
<p>None of these questions are simple.  What is clear is that the current economic structure of college sports is not likely to be sustainable even at the &#8220;rich&#8221; schools, much less so at schools like EMU.</p>
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		<title>By: jackie</title>
		<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/comment-page-1/#comment-59524</link>
		<dc:creator>jackie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 01:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emutalk.org/?p=1801#comment-59524</guid>
		<description>Facilities, facilities, facilities. We&#039;ve got to have much better football facilities in order to compete in any fashion in the MAC. It&#039;s truly a shame that EMU has not had the type of facilities it needs to compete at this level of college football for so long. What is a football recruit to think when he&#039;s shown around and sees that we lack so many amenities that other universities in the MAC offer. I think what they are trying to do now with the in door practice facility will help somewhat, but hopefully down the road, I hope they could look at renovating rynearson stadium. I think that would be a huge boost to the program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Facilities, facilities, facilities. We&#8217;ve got to have much better football facilities in order to compete in any fashion in the MAC. It&#8217;s truly a shame that EMU has not had the type of facilities it needs to compete at this level of college football for so long. What is a football recruit to think when he&#8217;s shown around and sees that we lack so many amenities that other universities in the MAC offer. I think what they are trying to do now with the in door practice facility will help somewhat, but hopefully down the road, I hope they could look at renovating rynearson stadium. I think that would be a huge boost to the program.</p>
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		<title>By: Alum</title>
		<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/comment-page-1/#comment-59521</link>
		<dc:creator>Alum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:58:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emutalk.org/?p=1801#comment-59521</guid>
		<description>I think you guys should re-examine the money pit comment.  How much did they get for playing U of M? How much will they get for playing Arkansas?  It&#039;s around $2 million.  The solution to the football issue is to put the facilities on equal footing with Western and Central.  They out recruit us because of facilities.  Without football there is no MAC conference membership.  Perhaps you&#039;d like to play Findlay or Tiffen. I&#039;m sure our Olympic Sports would vote no on that.  I&#039;ve seen success at EMU 22 years ago. It can happen again.  I&#039;ve never seen such spit and bile comments over football.  Another thing that none of you have considered is that moving down to Division I-AA or II does not mean there will be any savings.  Depending on the conference, travel expenses could increase.  In addition, there are several schools at those levels that have better facilities.  Best to stay where we are, playing Michigan schools and schools in Ohio and Indiana.  Once we leave Division 1-A there will be no going back.  EMUlifer: I agree with you that things will get ugly.  I can see the elimination of sports at several schools and even the loss of a conference or two.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you guys should re-examine the money pit comment.  How much did they get for playing U of M? How much will they get for playing Arkansas?  It&#8217;s around $2 million.  The solution to the football issue is to put the facilities on equal footing with Western and Central.  They out recruit us because of facilities.  Without football there is no MAC conference membership.  Perhaps you&#8217;d like to play Findlay or Tiffen. I&#8217;m sure our Olympic Sports would vote no on that.  I&#8217;ve seen success at EMU 22 years ago. It can happen again.  I&#8217;ve never seen such spit and bile comments over football.  Another thing that none of you have considered is that moving down to Division I-AA or II does not mean there will be any savings.  Depending on the conference, travel expenses could increase.  In addition, there are several schools at those levels that have better facilities.  Best to stay where we are, playing Michigan schools and schools in Ohio and Indiana.  Once we leave Division 1-A there will be no going back.  EMUlifer: I agree with you that things will get ugly.  I can see the elimination of sports at several schools and even the loss of a conference or two.</p>
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		<title>By: EMU Supporter</title>
		<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/comment-page-1/#comment-59520</link>
		<dc:creator>EMU Supporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 14:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emutalk.org/?p=1801#comment-59520</guid>
		<description>EagleG, I did check and football is a required sport to be a full member of the MAC.  We are also required to compete in 5 other sports.  There are 6 core sports required.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EagleG, I did check and football is a required sport to be a full member of the MAC.  We are also required to compete in 5 other sports.  There are 6 core sports required.</p>
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		<title>By: Lamont Cranston</title>
		<link>http://emutalk.org/2009/10/fix-your-danged-stadium-already-no-1-eastern-michigan-university/comment-page-1/#comment-59519</link>
		<dc:creator>Lamont Cranston</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Oct 2009 14:34:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://emutalk.org/?p=1801#comment-59519</guid>
		<description>Wow, I can’t believe that none of the comments have addressed the primary reason sports are offered and that is for the student athlete.  I believe football is an important part of a well rounded intermural sports program.  However there is no reason EMU cannot continue to offer football to the student athlete yet not totally demoralize them nor pour huge amounts of money into a losing proposition at the expense of other equally valuable sport experiences for the student athletes (swimming and diving, wrestling, etc.).  Many academically excellent universities are committed to providing their student athletes with a football program but have wisely chosen not to be in division one.  I think it is unconscionable that EMU football student athletes have to have their sense of self worth crushed because the egos of several members of EMU’s Board of Regents refuse to give up the cache of being in division one despite being its doormat.  

When EMU starts to offer as many full ride academic scholarships (I’ve heard its around 20) as it does full ride athletic scholarships (I‘ve heard its around 90) then and only then will we begin to see EMU live up to the slogan Education First.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I can’t believe that none of the comments have addressed the primary reason sports are offered and that is for the student athlete.  I believe football is an important part of a well rounded intermural sports program.  However there is no reason EMU cannot continue to offer football to the student athlete yet not totally demoralize them nor pour huge amounts of money into a losing proposition at the expense of other equally valuable sport experiences for the student athletes (swimming and diving, wrestling, etc.).  Many academically excellent universities are committed to providing their student athletes with a football program but have wisely chosen not to be in division one.  I think it is unconscionable that EMU football student athletes have to have their sense of self worth crushed because the egos of several members of EMU’s Board of Regents refuse to give up the cache of being in division one despite being its doormat.  </p>
<p>When EMU starts to offer as many full ride academic scholarships (I’ve heard its around 20) as it does full ride athletic scholarships (I‘ve heard its around 90) then and only then will we begin to see EMU live up to the slogan Education First.</p>
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